that was a quote someone put in the ‘comments’ section, and it makes a great intro for the first topic i want to ask about.
but first, blog loyalist JK just lost his mother- let’s all send some compassionate wishes and prayers in his direction… sincere condolences on your loss, JK…
and now, the long awaited (almost 2 sentences is long enough to make you wait, i think) question: what exactly is organic? i’m obviously not trying to get a list of products, or even the governmental definitions- i am wondering in a worldview sense, what IS organic?
this question is prompted to my visit to trader joe’s yesterday. now that i am newly ensconced on a higher plane of reality (can you just hear my peaceful chants echoing in this blog???), i naturally gravitated to things labelled “organic”. some stuff is easy- fruits and vegetables won’t have toxic chemical type pesticides. ok, but there are ‘organic’ pesticides, and they are meant to kill pests, which by definition makes them toxic. lots of poisonous plants are- DA DUM- toxic, so i know that being naturally occurring doesn’t make something organic. one can have organic brain disease, and that’s not exactly a warm and fuzzy, now is it? so i know that it is not always the case that organic=good. other products get even harder.
i bought organic milk. so that was weird. the cow on the carton is smiling, i think, but there is a smiling cow on various brands of non-organic cheese as well. so, clearly happy cattle does not organic make. i tried to puzzle it out- milk would seem to always be organic, in that it is an unadulterated substance that comes out of a living cow. is there such a thing as milk that is not organic? is that because the cow does or doesn’t eat organic? what if the cow enjoys a good ole snickers bar from time to time? does it have to do with the cow having certain medications? i know when i was nursing i took certain medications, but i don’t think that made my milk “non-organic”. is there junk added to the milk after it leaves the cow? if so, yuck! but i have never heard of that… what if the cow is grass fed, or pasture-raised, but needed a course of antibiotics for a specific illness at some point in its life? so, that one was a puzzle…
there were also things like ‘organic chocolate’. so it’s not always the case that organic=healthy. (don’t say that it is healthy compared to non-organic chocolate, or i might cry in frustration.)
and when there are like 25 steps of processing in order to get whatever food from its natural habitat to your natural mouth, which steps need to be organic for your food to be organic? and which steps do you care about? and do those 2 answers always match up?
is organic more a philosophy of life? and, if so, do you even care what a package says? (insert game show host’s voice here- “answers to these questions and more will be brought to youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- in the next episode!!)
second pressing matter- thank you to all of you who continue to comment. even those of you who just kind of lurk are cool, though. you’re the ones i will run into in various places and you will say, “oh! you’re you? i read your blog every day!” and i’m like, whoa- who are you again? and you’re like, “i’m me!” and then we can be friends.
but those of you who comment are the ones who really make my days happy. i know some days i just don’t get around to responding to comments, and some days i will get halfway through just clicking the ‘accept’ button on everyone, and then i will start to write specific comments back, but i am never ever ignoring you! one of my daughters was sitting with me last night while i was reading through the comments and she asked, “do you have to do this every night?” and i cracked up, because i don’t have to do it ever! but i love it! it’s absolutely one of the best ways to relax and unwind after any kind of day, it makes me so inspired to keep blogging! so, please don’t ever take it personally if i don’t respond to you. sometimes, i will only look at the pending comments, which are the ones for first-time posters. i have to approve those before they get posted, but if you have been approved already, your comments automatically post. i didn’t realize this at first, so i was missing loads of comments from long-time followers. ok, life is a learning process…
3rd topic, and i will make it a quickie- (see what happens when i have no computer access all day? my thoughts get backlogged and then i have to write 700 page posts all at once 😉 ) i was driving by a house today and it had the most beautiful blue/purple flowers in front. it was gorgeous the way that the flowers complimented the colors of the house, and i wondered for the nanosecond it took me to drive past what those flowers were. and then i saw them a few houses down. and then next door. and then a few houses away. oh- those must be WEEDS. i would like to pause here for a moment and suggest a new definition for a weed to mean something that will grow without you begging it to. i realized that those people will probably get up absurdly early in the morning some day soon and run to their nearest big box store and wait by the door for it to open and fall into the waiting arms of the closest worker and pant breathlessly, “please- give me the strongest poison you have! i’ve got to kill my purple weeds so my green weeds can live!” then, composing himself or herself for a moment, they (meaning he/she) will add, “oh, and do you have any chemicals that will nurture the green stuff? because i can’t seem to attract the right kind of green stuff. invaders keep encroaching from other areas, and i must maintain my pristine green!”
my star husband is ending up with a less than starry lawn. when we put in the garden, he got the front half of the property to plant grass, and i got the half closest to the house- all the better to disguise my fiendish plans for world domination- insert evil laugh here- mwaaa hahahahah!!! i fully expected my plants to die (see my old post on my black thumb-itis) and my husband’s to thrive. some stuff just works out that way…
but first his grass seed got burnt up by the sun. not so my plant seeds. then he re-topsoiled and re-seeded. my plants started growing. not so, his grass. my plants kept growing. some of his grass poked through the soil, but it distinctly resembled the runty kids in school (you know the ones who eat what they pick out of their noses?). my plants started to look like photos from a catalog (please don’t jinx me, please don’t jinx me!) , and his grass started to look like- um (how to say this nicely?) like a junkyard of mean grass and bullying grass and kids-with-skinned-knees grass and some tender shoots of the “right” grass, and lots of dirt in between. i was going to take photos for the blog, but i didn’t want to hurt his feelings. seriously.
granted, i have had a lot of help on my plants. but all parts of the yard are in the same climate zone. they all get watered at the same time. they all get whatever heartache it is that growing things suffer. but his grass is just- ugh…
because that type of grass is not meant to grow here. BIG DUH MOMENT.
that grass is so labor-intensive/resource-sucking/potentially money pit-ish because it doesn’t belong here… OH… it’s like that sesame street song- one of these things is not like the other. one of these things just doesn’t belong. can you guess which thing is not like the others, before i finish my song?
that would be, “what is our grass, for 200, alex…”
so, let’s review. (i like to have my facts straight, after all…) we plant at the same time. mine grows first. we water the same. mine grows bigger. we put everything into clean topsoil. he gets 50% weeds. i get a few. we are picking our first vegetables. his grass needs to be cut with scissors.
that would be funny if it wasn’t true. last week, afraid of running a mower over the delicate shoots of new grass, i paid one of my sons to go out there with some old scissors and give some pieces of grass a little trim. didn’t want any more code violations.
we SO belong in stepford…
anyway, i will leave this post alone for now. i may or may not get a chance to write another post tonight. but i’ll give you a teaser- it’s about ryan the guru and sigmund freud- stay tuned…
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:25:35
If you want to know more about milk, check out this site….. http://realmilk.com/
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:31:11
This is in response to “organic milk”. I watch Michael Moore’s documentaries like a fied, and I am being educated by him. He has a documentary about the cattle industry, it seems that “grain fed” cows are not healthy for the consumer they contain samonila sp? When cattle are feed grass it cleans out their intestine system to rid them of poisons… One has to see this documentary by Michael Morre it is horrible among other documentaries by him on how our food systems are being processed by large corporations..
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:33:18
As always, I enjoyed your post. I will try to give a little input on the milk thing, anyway. Yes, non-organic milk is adulterated in that non-organic additives can be in it. It may come from cows who have been treated with a number of hormones, antibiotics, etc. They really should have an organic diet, as certain non-organic agricultural chemicals will pass into and even concentrate in milk. Now comes the hard part, but I will try to break it gently ….. even milk labeled “Organic” may not be. Just lately there has been a scandal involving Horizon brand “Organic” milk with added DHEA. Well, too bad they added the DHEA, because it is decidedly NOT organic, and has allegedly caused health problems for infants. Whadda ya gonna do? Read labels, read articles on it, and hope for the best. I hope for the best for you,
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:33:55
BWAHhaha! (That would be a gigantic chuckle…so my kids inform me) Keep blogging, you are quirky and I LOVE that you had an issue, stood by it and won. Deservedly! Just a thought, (a wickedly facetiously one) you might try “uncaged” eggs. Very green and thoughtful…trust me I never thought about how/where my omelet came from…but gruesome. And really expensive.
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:34:48
Thanks Julie. We’ll be back to the blog Tuesday.
Keep writing because we love reading!
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:38:49
we happen to have an awesome homesteading family who we have become friends with, and we go about once a month to get our “farm egg” fix! we are so lucky to have connected with them- and i’m not just saying that because their eggs are amazing! 🙂
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:39:17
if you wonder the difference in organic milk.. some has to do with what the cattle are fed.. are they fed organic food? grass? etc? also.. are they pumped full of hormones and antibiotics.. Rgbh is not so good.. so that’s is one of the things you are trying to avoid..
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:39:52
I have been following you for weeks, but this is my first comment. I admire you and your strength. And you husband, for giving you the strength and support in those dark hours when you really needed it. You are a heroine in my book.
I think organic milk comes from cows that have been pasture fed and any feed they are given was organically grown (no chemicals), also no growth hormones or antibiotics. If a cow is allowed to graze on fresh pasture, it is less likely to need antibiotics. If kept in a barn and getting very little if any sunlight, well, you are asking for sick cows. If you knew what was in a gallon of “regular” milk you would never want to drink it again (blood and puss, at “acceptable limits”. ANY amount of blood and puss in my food is too much for me.
Sandy in Oregon
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:40:07
thanks, bill- back at ya! and it just goes to prove that you can only do what you can do in this world, and it’s useless to sweat the rest…
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:40:08
I just love your posts. Have I said that enough? I kind of have the opposite problem at the moment. My garden gets overgrown with grass. Of course, it’s not really the lawn type, and half of it is sand burr grass. Not a nice grass. I suppose if I wanted to mow and just pull out the sand burr grass, It might end up nice and lawny, but I just pull up all the grass, throw out the sand burrs and use the rest for mulch. Still not very nice looking and I’m just now catching up with pulling it up.
Anyway, I’m glad your garden is doing so well. I suppose you could just forget the grass and plant that area with flowers!
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:42:19
i’ve seen lots of good documentaries, but none ever by michael moore! oh well- to each his own… but i do have about 6 documentaries waiting in my netflix cue (i know i spelled that wrong- sorry, too lazy to look it up). and i have read books on the cattle issue- yikes!
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:43:15
Organic Stepford. Yer killin me…
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:46:13
ah weston price- i have a friend who is amazingly well-read and knowledgeable and she is all over weston price stuff! and, go figure- they have a smiling cow on the website! i recently read a book called the raw milk revolution that you might really enjoy- sorry i can’t remember who wrote it, but it was definitely worth a read! (and the farm-to-consumer legal defense folks who are on the links on my blog are in that book!) it’s funny when the world turns out to be only 5cm large, huh????? 😉
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:53:13
To me, the organic label is a necessary substitute when I can’t know the farmer and know where the food comes from, how it was produced, what treatment the fruits and vegetables had and the name of the cow the milk came from. It is not a guarantee of excellence, but it hopefully means that more care was taken for the health of the soil, the plants and the animals involved. Sometimes, when you know the farmer, you know that a particular food not labeled organic is really just fine. Less processed is usually better. Grassfed, pastured and organic animal products are more of a priority to me than organic fruits and veggies, partly due to animal welfare issues and partly due to possible fat soluble toxins.
Jul 28, 2011 @ 23:59:07
Ok, so I’m commenting for the first time! I love your blog! I don’t read a lot of blogs because I don’t have time but I find yours very interesting. I first started reading because I hate injustice but now I read because I like reading what you share! So please keep sharing it’s wonderful! :*)
Jul 29, 2011 @ 00:11:02
A lesson on ORGANIC; what it is, what it isn’t:
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/agritrue-a-new-standard-in-agriculture
The (free) podcasts have addressed the issue of “organic” quite a few times, there is a search box almost half way down on the right, just over the sponsor boxes.
Don’t be scared of the word ‘survival’; Jack spends quite a bit of time on his podcasts talking about gardening, and non-traditional methods and plants which don’t require much labor, irrigation methods, etc.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 00:35:46
My personal conviction is not to necessarily buy organic, but to KNOW MY FARMER. There are a ton of people selling at farmer’s markets, etc. that grow their crops in a more “organic” way than the same thing with an organic label. I also buy organic milk, but I’d rather buy raw. I actually have my own dairy goats, and when they aren’t in milk, I buy organic as a lesser “evil” than just store bought milk. But even THAT is at a cost… because organic dairy is nearly always Ultra pasteurized which means it’s useless in the good for you dept. because all the good stuff has been killed in order to maintain a longer shelf life. If I’m not drinking my own milk, more important to me than the organic label, is how animals are treated by the company that I’m buying the milk from. If the company doesn’t have an established humane animal treatment statement on their site, I don’t buy. Organic is just like any other Industrial Agriculture… if you don’t know who you’re buying from, you might be buying something that has a label, without the conviction to back it up. By the same token, there are a TON of smaller businesses that have a much better ethical stand that can’t afford the organic label. Shop around. IMO it’s far better to stop splitting hairs over what something does or doesn’t mean, and just get to REALLY know where your food is coming from.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 00:41:20
I hope someone has already hooked you up with him, but if not, please, please, contact him. I have read his book and heard him talk. This is exactly his kind of project. http://www.gcbl.org/events/environmental-artist-fritz-haag-03-24-2008
Jul 29, 2011 @ 00:56:54
As usual, I enjoyed your post. Keep them coming!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 01:29:20
At this time of year I will often see the enchantingly beautiful blue bloom of the wild Chicory plant. that may be what you are seeing , though there are innumerable wildflowers, ‘ditch’ flowers, etc, each more precious than the next as you get to know them. The roasted and ground chicory root makes a caffine free ‘strengthener’ for your store bought ground coffee(25-35% chicory, nice) . Now if you dig it up by the roadside, don’t call it ‘organic’ (clean, healthful) as it will be tainted with petroleum (organic, btw) pollution from traffic and road leaching.
I am so glad to have the ‘organic’ question flopping around. It is being used and misused and twisted to the point where every ‘body’ needs to know for himself what is truly good, clean, appropriate for that body. Getting to know ourselves and our environment, and gardening is one of the best study aids. Best of luck to us all!!!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 01:33:29
City Councils seem to be running amok all around. There’s Quartzsite, AZ and this little burg in Arkansas: http://wonkette.com/449706/arkansas-city-council-outlaws-public-meetings-other-councils Don’t miss the comments!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 01:43:16
My four pillars of food consumption are humane, sustainable, local, and organic(in that order.)
Jul 29, 2011 @ 01:48:10
Very sorry to hear of your loss JK. My heart goes out to you and your family.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 02:39:33
I think of organic like this. Any thing that grows the way it was naturally supposed to be grown is “organic”. If you add anything to your garden that you cant find naturally for a fertilizer, it’s not “organic”. All organic means in the grocery store is that a farmer had to pay a boat load of money to to get a stamp on their product that shows that they grow or raise their product the way mother nature intended it to grow. Don’t let it fool you though! there are so many products that can say “ORGANIC” on the package but are not organic at all. Example Scott’s ‘Organic Choice’ Potting soil. It has no certification what so ever and has all kinds of chemicals in it.. My friend has a farm up by Armada and it cost him $6000 to get a certification for a 2 acre farm. All so when he went to farmers markets people would buy his “Organic” produce. His sales tripled because of the label. The crazy thing is that he never changed anything about how he farmed and it took him 5 years to get the piece of paper. The healthiest way to shop is to ring your farmers door bell.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 02:40:10
Is the area designated for grass part to full sun? If so, your husband might want to try one of the cultivars of Buffalo Grass (Bouteloua dactyloides) and/or Blue Grama.
They’re native (although I think you might be at the eastern edge of the natural range …), drought resistant, and don’t require much mowing.
If it’s an area in part shade, and there’s not much foot traffic, you could try establishing a stand of Pennsylvania Sedge. Again, it’s native and looks very nice.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 07:44:32
as always….im at work and love your posts. time to run…going home now. thank you for another great post, Dave (the man)
Jul 29, 2011 @ 08:00:04
I’d like to put my two cents in to defend organic chocolate… specifically dark chocolate. It IS in fact considered a food for your health. The darker it is, the healthier for you. Here is why: it is chock full of antioxidants. A serving (Not a whole bar, just a serving) of dark chocolate 60% cacao or more is actually beneficial to health because it fights free radicals which helps defend against cancer, and It contains plant phenols which lower blood pressure, thus helping fight against heart disease. Combining it with black or only slightly sweet coffee doubles the effectiveness. But, like with anything, moderation is the key. So YES, organic chocolate IS healthy! (So is the non organic stuff, but who wants to eat the guck they put on that? I’d think the pesticides would negate the benefits)
Jul 29, 2011 @ 09:47:40
Imagine the conversation The Creator might have had with St. Francis on the subject of lawns:
God: Hey St. Francis, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there in the Midwest? What happened to the dandelions, violets, thistle and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect “no maintenance” garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long lasting blossoms attracts butterflies, honey bees and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now. But all I see are these green rectangles.
St. Francis: It’s the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers “weeds” and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.
God: Grass? But it’s so boring. It’s not colorful. It doesn’t attract butterflies, birds and bees, only grubs and sod worms. It’s temperamental with temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?
St. Francis: Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. The begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any other plant that crops up in the lawn.
God: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.
St. Francis: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it… sometimes twice a week.
God: They cut it? Do they then bail it like hay?
St. Francis: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.
God: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?
St. Francis: No Sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.
God: Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?
St. Francis: Yes, Sir.
God: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.
St. Francis: You are not going to believe this Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.
God: What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It’s a natural circle of life.
St. Francis: You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away.
God: No. What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter and to keep the soil moist and loose?
St. Francis: After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy something which they call mulch. The haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves.
God: And where do they get this mulch?
St. Francis: They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.
God: Enough. I don’t want to think about this anymore. Sister Catherine, you’re in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for us tonight?
Sister Catherine: “Dumb and Dumber”, Lord. It’s a real stupid movie about…..
God: Never mind, I think I just heard the whole story from St. Francis.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 10:08:39
Organic occurs in a naturally progressive way. Cows naturally produce milk. Milk and bacteria naturally produce cheese. Plants naturally grow. It’s when you try to chemically rush it, or chemically protect it from illness/predators/other destruction that it becomes unnatural. Lots of gardeners can tell you what to plant by vegetables to naturally deter animals/insects. They – naturally – avoid certain plants. If you use those other plants’ extracts, it’s still natural, but not naturally developed/organically occurring.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 10:25:52
Hey Julie –
Just a little note about Organic. While I’m sure you can do the research and probably have read much about the subject we too have turned to organic foods in our house.
I started with my children, their milk and baby foods and then their snacks. Since then I have done a fair share of research and have seen a few films (Food Matters and Food Inc.) The biggest thing for me now is that Organic more than just being better for you means no GMO. Non-Gmo is the more important factor. You can have a non-gmo food(or so they say) and it not be organic but you cannot have an organic food with gmo. Genetically Modified Organisms are evil. GMO cause illness, obesity and long list of other medical problems. It’s been called Frankenfood. How is your body supposed to process food that is synthetic and created in a lab?
Anyway..I could go on and on about this but I promised a “little note”
Some of this may lead to a better understanding or at least head your research in the right direction.
Happy Growing!
Melissa
Jul 29, 2011 @ 10:39:47
a bit of trivia – Stepford is a fictitious place patterned after Easton, Connecticut. The median house value in 2009 was $900,000. i think that says it all.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 11:34:17
OH MY GOSH! This is too funny! I may have to do a copy and paste onto my fb page giving credit to goinveg and your blog! 🙂 All the best to you and your family. I grew up in Berkley.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 11:40:25
An alternate name for “weeds” is “volunteers”. And they are the hardiest, most medicinal plants we have. Also, you can plant flowers (native or not) with your veggies if you want to attract pollinators. A great book is “companion planting”. My main focus for our garden is veggies, but flowers also make me very happy.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 11:57:04
A link toward a film about urban gardening in Detroit.
http://obeygiant.com/prints/urban-roots-a-new-documentary-by-tree-media
Jul 29, 2011 @ 12:59:52
“ORGANIC” is, arguably, THE daftest title it could be given.
Look up “Organic chemicals”.
Organic chemicals are anathema to Organic farmers and gardeners.
Personally I think “Natural” is probably nearer the mark. e.g. You CAN make soap from fats & NaOH (Caustic soda). What’s more natural than hand-made soap? A solution of which’ll see off yer average green-fly, but I’d be the LAST to say it was TOXIC, even if I wouldn’t want to drink it.
I THINK those who coined the expression “Organic” REALLY meant close to nature, no laboratory chemicals etc.
As a farmer friend of mine once said “Muck’s management.” and I certainly turned a small, clay patch into decent, friable, loam over a 5yr period almost entirely with a touch of beter drainage and plenty of “MUCK” (Manure)
There was an “Organic” magazine/programme (I forget which) over here for a while entitled “All muck and magic”.
Good luck with the search for the Holy Grail.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 13:02:20
Julie….I have commented before, but am mostly a lurker….but have to stop taking sips of my morning coffee (I’m a few hours behind your time zone) to just say…..you make my day.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 13:05:03
We have, over here, an outfit called “The Soil Association”.
To become certified by them takes about 5 yrs of testing your soil until it is free of chemicals.
For your milk to be organic the cows will need to be fed on chemical free food, no protein pellets made of fish meal, any grass they graze will need to be on Certified land, they will have to be free of antibiotic injections etc. etc.
Say when to stop.
Just coz it comes straight from the udder to the bottle doesn’t make it unadulterated.
RIGHT. Get off yer soap-box lad.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 13:27:37
Hi
I thought I’d comment about why I buy organic (whenever I can.) While I agree with the parts about keeping the oil/chemical industry-based toxins out of our foods and environment, my primary reason has to do with the soil. That is, when farming or home-growing is organic, you end up with better soil. And that holds more water, is home to more beneficial insects and bacteria, and resists desertification. Healthy soils produce healthy plants and greater yields, too.
Oh, there’s a site I found recently for organic lawn-care that your husband might like, too, considering the title: Organic Lawn Care For the Cheap and Lazy (http://www.richsoil.com/lawn-care.jsp)
Happy guerrilla gardening!
Eric
Jul 29, 2011 @ 13:41:17
“Organic” is just a marketing buzzword these days. I hear we’ve recently developed something called “organic water” – try telling that to a chemist!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 13:50:01
1. One definition of a “weed” is “Any plant in a position YOU do not want it to be”.
2. There is a scholl of thought over here which says that, per Sq. yd. a lawn takes more man-hours per year to look after than a veg patch.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:06:57
If they did it as our lot, his soil would have been tested annually for 5yrs to check for the presence of any chemicals which would prevent him from certification. Chemical run-off from your neighbour can be enough to put the mockers on your cert.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:09:48
BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:16:23
“Those who can convince you of absurdities, can also get you to commit atrocities.” ~ Voltaire
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:29:47
thanks- now i just have to try to live up to that title 😉
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:32:38
thanks for the good info! -julie
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:34:04
thanks- i’ll pass that on. at this point, i’m considering clover for my imaginary animals to graze on 🙂
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:34:28
i will check it out- thanks!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:34:52
that’s awesome! thank you for the high compliment! 🙂
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:35:47
great answer- thanks!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:37:22
yep- any blood or pus in our food needs to come from an immediate family member 😉 thanks for the good info, though- is this a commonly accepted criteria, do you know?
Jul 29, 2011 @ 14:37:52
ok, that seems to be the consensus- thanks! -julie
Jul 29, 2011 @ 15:11:07
http://www.naturalnews.com/033175_Julie_Bass_Oak_Park.html
Jul 29, 2011 @ 16:22:45
Permission to “Cross post”?
All lower case and “Corrected”
email:-
BRAINNAKEATYAHOODOTCODOTUK
Jul 29, 2011 @ 16:33:17
The Brit take on “Organic”
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Environmentandgreenerliving/Greenerhomeandgarden/Greenerlabelsandclaims/DG_064866
Jul 29, 2011 @ 17:10:32
I was wondering the same thing!
Jul 29, 2011 @ 20:13:07
You may wish to see a documentary called “Food Inc”, and another called “The Future of Food”. It’ll explain a lot to you.
On the subject of organic animal products (meat, milk, eggs, etc), keep in mind this: Cows are not supposed to eat grain. Chickens are not supposed to eat grain. Indeed, most if not all animals are not supposed to eat grain (and there are people out there who would argue that humans are not supposed to eat grain as well).
Cows and sheep are herbivores. They eat GRASS. Chickens and pigs are omnivores, they’ll eat many things, insects, plant matter, grass, berries, roots, nuts, even meat if they come across it and they’re hungry enough. Look at the wild game animals. They don’t eat grains. They eat grass, or berries, or whatever they can get. So why can’t our meat/milk/egg making animals have the same natural diet?
The natural way of eating was translated into “Feed everyone grains,” and that’s detrimental to the animal and to people eating/drinking milk from it. That’s how you get feedlots, and muddy cows with not a blade of grass to be seen, standing knee deep in mud.
The moment I have enough space for a few animals, I’m getting my own chickens and letting them free range, and some milking goats for fresh raw milk.
Jul 29, 2011 @ 20:31:26
ok- i hear about free range and pasture fed (i know feedlots are bad bad things)- but how does that jibe with “organic” ? is that how you define organic? how the government defines it? how the labels reflect the animals’ conditions? i have seen food, inc. and will try to get the other video soon- thanks for the direction! -julie
Jul 29, 2011 @ 20:36:28
huh? sorry, but i don’t understand if you are asking me something, or if this is just a weird computer hiccup- could you please clarify if you are wanting me to do something? thanks! (sorry- i’m sort of new at this…)
Jul 29, 2011 @ 20:39:18
Hello
————————————————–
(youtube video to watch)
THE issue of our time: Genetic Armageddon
http://www.infowars.com/the-issue-of-our-time-genetic-armageddon/
Jul 30, 2011 @ 04:38:47
In many groups it is considered EXTREMELY bad form to take another person’s post to that group and “Cross-post” …
that is take it and use it on any OTHER group bar the group it appeared in, without the author’s permission.
So, had I found this item, for instance, in the group “Nutritional Trends UK” I would ask the author’s permission to “Cross-post” whereupon, given that permission, I could then take it and show it to the group “To your health”, say, to illustrate a point.
Jul 30, 2011 @ 04:44:34
I am also led to believe that there are nasty “robots” roaming the internet, able to recognise and”read” email addresses and harvest them for sale to interested parties. To avoid this a lot of people will happily give their email address in a disguised form.
For instance if you use the correct @ and .. and write it in lower case it would be correct, but a “bot” as they are known would not recognise the following as an email address
BRAINNAKE AT YAHOO DOT CO DOT UK
Jul 30, 2011 @ 10:57:16
More on “Organic”, just scroll down a ways:
http://www.gourmetgarlicgardens.com/growing.htm
Jul 30, 2011 @ 13:31:26
CHEERS for dark chocolate, one of my favorite healthy treats!
Jul 30, 2011 @ 13:35:46
Love that!
Jul 30, 2011 @ 14:13:49
Reading through these comments, I was looking for somone to address GMOs. (Genetically modified foods.) Thank you! GMO immediately rules out organic, regardless of any chemical treatments or not. GMO foods are allowed in America, when many other countries do not allow them. This is a big money deal for Monsanto and other big chem companies. But the genetically modified foods kill rats only after eating them for a short time in some cases. Additionally, these crops cross-pollinate into a neighbors crop, and then Monsanto sues the innocent organic farmer for patent infringement. Really disgusting. The cross-pollination threatens to destroy our entire food chain on the planet, yet I don’t even hear the “organic” food proponents fighting it, and it is the most dangerous of all threats.
Most foods in this country are GMOs. It is harder to find non-GMO food, even at someplace like Whole Foods than it is to find unlabeled GMOs. We are all eating them. if the cows are fed corn, it’s genetically modified corn. Most of the farmers I know in the “corn belt” shrug their shoulders. They have to make a living, and compete in the marketplace, and Monsanto is the king.
Use heritage seeds for your garden, nothing else. Learn how to use natural substances to fertilize your gardens, and what foods to compost for which plants to keep bugs away, and to use baking soda and soap to get rid of fungus problems, etc. Get up to speed on the destruction Monsanto and the like are doing to our food supply, and join the fight. At this point, that’s the best we can do. If we don’t do it, the effects will likely be the destruction of life as we know it.
Jul 30, 2011 @ 19:18:02
Hi there,
I’m a “beyond-organic” farmer in California. My husband and I have 600 heritage breed hens we raise on pasture for eggs and 2 Tamworth (another heritage breed) gilts we just bred so we can move into pork. (you can check us out on facebook if you’d like, the name is Your Family Farm).
The organic label is tricky as it’s mostly been hi-jacked by industrial ag. We’re not certified organic because we’re producing a better product and don’t want to be lumped in with the barely-organic offenders.
Please allow me to explain.
Fruit & veggie-wise, organic is pretty straight-forward. Producers are allowed to use approved organic pesticides and herbicides. Some of those are definitely questionable, (I wouldn’t use many of them) but all in all this type of production is a million times better than the toxic brew industrial farmers use, (groundwater is tainted, workers get sick, consumers get cancer… ).
Meat and dairy starts getting more tricky.
Organic dairy cows have minimum standards for time spent on pasture, but this is not enforced for many producers. They have to be fed organic feed, (grass-fed means organic green feed, but it can be baled instead of fresh and there’s no difference under the “grass-fed” label). They can not be given hormones or antibiotics. The milk is pastuerized, (pastuerization is a whole other conversation…).
So beef can be labeled “grass-fed” when cattle are kept in a feedlot and fed bales of alfalfa, “organic grass-fed” if the alfalfa is organic. Most consumers think grass-fed means grass from pasture – not always true. Look for meat labelled as “100% pasture-raised and grass-fed”. Organic meat is still hard to find, but more on that in the end.
Pork… industrialized meat production is horrific and pigs get the worst of it. I highly recommend reading “The Omnivores Dilemma” by Michael Pollan – it’s what convinced by husband and I to get into farming.
Organic eggs… these really raise our hackles. They use words like “free-range” which can mean anything from roaming on pasture, (rare) to a cage-free warehouse with thousands of hens, (more common). The warehoused hens are supposed to have access to the outdoors in order to be called “organic free-range” but many producers only have narrow concrete fenced-in runs along the warehouse. Organic standards don’t specify how much time the hens should be able to spend outdoors, nor the quality of the outdoor environment. Many producers don’t open the little hatch leading out to the run until the hens are 6-weeks old. By that time they’re already used to getting food & water indoors and generally won’t venture out the hatch. Meanwhile, the egg carton usually has an idyllic view of a Holly Hobby type girl in a farm setting with a few hens pecking in grass around her feet – the reality couldn’t be any further from that image.
The ulitimate crux of all this is that you, as a consumer, must get to know your farmer. Ask questions. Go visit the farm. Developing relationships with local farmers is the best way to guarantee your family a healthy food supply. If a farmer won’t let you visit, stay away from what they’re selling. We need a totally transparent food system in order to guarantee food safety and the industrial agriculturalists are fighting tooth and nail to prevent that from ever happening.
If you know a local farmer that isn’t certified organic but doesn’t use pesticides, herbicides, growth-hormones, anti-biotics, etc. , if they’ll let you visit their farm, if they have sound farming practices… then you’ve struck gold!
All my best wishes for finding ways of providing your family with healthy food. I wish more people were interested in educating themselves the way you are. I was born in Lansing, MI and have family throughout the Detroit and Rose City area. You make me proud to be from Michigan!
Jul 30, 2011 @ 22:59:46
wow- i have to say this is the most complete and sensible information i have found yet on the topic! i actually understood every single thing you said, which can be rare in these types of discussions 😉 i will definitely check out your site- but even more exciting (so far- i haven’t seen your site, yet…) is that now i know much better questions to ask and have much more direction on what i should be looking for. thank you! and, yay for michiganians!!
Jul 30, 2011 @ 23:04:51
eeeks! it would be less horrifying if it wasn’t so true…
Jul 30, 2011 @ 23:10:14
thanks!
Jul 30, 2011 @ 23:33:21
Your welcome! Part of our mission as farmers is to educate consumers about where their food comes from. We have a 100% open-door policy and encourage our customers to visit our farm. We take folks on tours and let them (including kids!) help collect eggs – tons of fun!
One thing I forgot to mention is GMO’s, which I see another person has commented on (thanks!). Definitely no GMO’s allowed in organic or beyond-organic production and it’s becoming a huge problem as far as organic feed for animals. US-duh (what I like to call the USDA) approved GMO alfalfa last year. The problem, which is the same with any crop that depends on open pollination, is pollen drift. The USDA has established crop barrier guidelines that are inadequate to prevent pollen drift to neighboring organic farms. Once your crop is tainted with GMO pollen, you’re done as far as organic is concerned.
There’s a good reason Europe has banned GMO’s. Mexico is the source for native corn and is home to a huge variety. Sadly, that is changing. Monsanto introduced their Round-up Ready corn and the contamination from pollen drift is decimating the native varieties. Not only that, farmers whose crops have been tainted by drift are prohibited by law from harvesting the seeds to plant next year’s crop. Once your corn has the Round-up Ready gene, those seeds are owned by Monsanto. Monsanto has successfully sued farmers who have planted seeds from crops tainted by Round-up Ready corn.
Please consider that one of the last remaining votes we have is how we spend our dollars. How we spend our money determines agricultural practices, labor practices, etc. We cannot continue as a society to ignore the ramifications of our purchases. Corporations are getting stronger economically and politically, while consumer and blue-collar worker rights continue to be eroded.
My mantra: Know Your Farmer & Vote With Your Dollars!
peace
Jul 31, 2011 @ 02:09:02
Kim, thanks for all that great info! Good luck with your farming (and teaching)!
Jul 31, 2011 @ 02:43:16
Great post! i wish you still lived in Lansing. You sound like your living at my dream farm. Thank you for doing what your doing.-Ryan
Jul 31, 2011 @ 06:17:13
It’s many a long moon since I ceased buying anything on which I find the word MOSANTO.
Do thou likewise.
;¬))
Jul 31, 2011 @ 07:56:27
I don’t know where this link came from, but it’s a wee bit scarey.
http://www.infowars.com/the-issue-of-our-time-genetic-armageddon/
Jul 31, 2011 @ 13:12:10
I like Kim’s reply, and I agree with her.
If you want to know more about what she means by industrial farming practices, look at the USDA definition of “organic” see this web site http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/nop
And if you want to know more about Michigan’s program to help farmers obtain organic certification see this one http://www.maeap.org/maeap/cropping
It is a long and expensive process to obtain certification in order to be able to claim the organic label and sell at WalMart, Kroger’s, Meijer, Target, and even Whole Foods. Many growers just forego the formal process and sell locally at farmer’s markets. You also might want to look into the new food safety act recently enacted(?) by our Congress House bill 875 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-875 which might want to make some small growers drop out.
But you do have to KNOW the farmers at the farmer’s market. I once asked an Amish vendor if he raised the out-of-season vegetables himself. He said “YES” (My husband said that meant he raised them from the floor of the produce warehouse into the bed of his neighbor’s pickup truck that morning before coming to market!)
Jul 31, 2011 @ 13:20:32
Oh, one more thing – I’ve subscribed to Organic Magazine on and off since the 1970’s. Robert Rodale was definitely a prophet!
See this article on the rodale website – http://www.rodale.com/monsanto – everything he forecasted is coming true.
Jul 31, 2011 @ 13:28:09
I know I am late on this reply but had to write anyway. Topsoil is known to produce weeds. Telll hubby the best way to go about it is to lay out the top soil, cover with clear plastic, burn the crap outta the soil so that it kills any weed seeds inside, then plant your grass.
I like your idea better, that is putting in a garden for edibles.
You should write a book because the way you write is very entertaining!
Deb
Jul 31, 2011 @ 13:51:03
Your definition of “weeds” made me laugh, & also reminded me of learning about weeds in Southern France, when I was a student: picking wildflowers with my French friends, in a meadow, I asked what one variety was, & was told “mauvaises herbes”, which is literally “evil herbs”, & thought, “my, there must be a fascinating folk tale behind that name! Then when I learned that other flowers were also “mauvaises herbes”, it gradually dawned on me that this meant weeds! @Lucie, I think you’re right that she’s describing chicory, which we always called “cornflowers” when we were growing up in Michigan. During WWII, the Europeans mixed half coffee/half chicory to save costs, & the chicory actually mellows the bitterness of the coffee beautifully. I got used to drinking chicory/coffee while I lived there, & had a hard time finding it back here, finally found Indian “Bru”, which is instant chicory/coffee–very cheap, but the only coffee I can stand to drink (in milk, of course, like cafe au lait), to this day.
Aug 01, 2011 @ 14:17:12
It’s all about the paperwork. When I worked for a DME (durable medical equipment) store we got JAACHO approved. To get approved you needed to fill out a load of paperwork, have signs posted, have procedures written up and pay for the certification. It was really a rip off because it really meant nothing except some company was making money on it. Organic or natural on the label really doesnt mean anything either. You’re better off buying from a local farmer who will let you see how he farms and treats his animals. You should look in to getting chickens. We have them and they are great! Nothing like a fresh egg from the source. Maybe you might have another battle on your hands though 🙂
Aug 01, 2011 @ 14:26:41
I’m sure there is a government site that explains pasture raised and free range and it is not what you would assume either. They have to let the chickens get out a minimal amount of time, this doesnt mean that they are actually in a pasture though. Government needs to get out of our food! The American people are not stupid, we can make decisions on what to eat and who to vote out of office in fact 😉
Aug 01, 2011 @ 14:35:46
There’s also the fact that Monsatan (monsanto) sues the farmers who are trying to sell their organic crops that have been contaminated with Monsatan’s RU ready crops. They go on the farmer’s fields, take a sample, get the results and then sue the farmer! Monsatan also has the farmers growing their seed sign a contract that states that the farmer if he sells his land will have to get the buyer to sign a contract with Monsatan…crazy. And most of the RU ready seed will NOT grow the following year. They have built in some sort of timer that the seeds will not grow the following year so the farmers cannot even save seed from year to year. Almost all soybeans are GMO so all that tofu and soymilk that people are eating and drinking is GMO and not safe to drink in my opinion. They are now growing GMO alfalfa in Australia. Just a matter of time before we get it here in USA, we might even already have it. Sneaky they are!
Aug 01, 2011 @ 14:45:38
i would love to have chickens, but that’s a fight i will have to take on at a later date 🙂 but for now, we have some great farm friends who keep us well supplied!
Aug 02, 2011 @ 12:22:09
I can’t wait!
Aug 19, 2011 @ 22:36:29
Thanks!