i’m not sure if i’m just noticing it more lately, or if people are really doing this more, but i’m noticing so many people misusing the phrase so-and-so and i.
i think maybe they do this because they think it sounds fancier or more educated than just saying _________ and me. i think a lot of people just never learned when to use me and when to use i, or they got corrected so many times as kids (possibly by people who didn’t even know themselves how to use ’and i’ correctly?) that they just default to “__________ and i”
as in, “do you want to come to the store with bob and i?”
or “can you help dad and i bring in the groceries?”
so here’s the rule: take away the other person in the sentence and say it in your mind. see if it sounds right. that’s it.
“do you want to come to the store with i?”
“can you help i bring in the groceries?”
clearly not.
so in the above examples, you need the word “me”.
i could explain why, cuz i’m homeschool-y like that, but it’s really unnecessary. all you really need to know is the simple rule.
now go forth in knowledge. each one, teach one. spread the word.
oh, can we do a few more things as long as we’re here?
of course we can.
whom is not a fancier form of who. they have different uses in different places, which i’m not going to explain, because most people quite frankly could care less. so my advice? skip the whom, unless you can at least articulate which part of speech it is.
let’s talk about adverbs as adjectives: i’m sorry if this is sounding preachy and i’m getting long-winded. i know that someone who has extendedly not only failed to capitalize, but continues to make up words and massacres the english language at random intervals really has no right whatsoever to lecture anyone about english grammar. okay, your point is taken. so feel free to stop reading now.
for the rest of you who hang in there in spite of my obvious failings, i throw out these thoughts:
adverbs are to modify verbs. they give extra information about an action word. they often- alarmingly often- end in “ly”.
example: he ran quickly.
she drove slowly.
she blogged endlessly.
in each case, the adverb (the word ending in -ly and conveniently underlined because i’m so techy) explains how the verb (action word) in the sentence was done.
an adjective, on the other hand, modifies -gives information about-a noun ( a noun is a person, place, or thing- but not an action word).
example:
the house is red.
these sentences are boring.
this post is lame.
so, where do people get messed up? when they say things like the following:
i feel badly.
translation: i touch things poorly. the sensations in my hands don’t work right, and when i try to figure out what it is i’m grasping i always get it wrong. just the other day, i tried to crack an egg for breakfast but it was a giant boulder and i smashed my favorite frying pan into tiny bits because, gal dangit i just feel so badly.
it smells oddly.
translation: there’s something wrong with its nose. which is strange because i didn’t even know that a bag of grated cheese had a nose. but sure enough i opened the bag and there it was: a big crooked nose. it’s no wonder it smells oddly with a nose like that! perhaps it has a deviated septum? i wonder if they have special ENTs for cheese. i can’t decide if i should throw it out or auction it off on ebay. do you think there’s a market for it? maybe i should go back to the grocery store where i bought it and see if i can find another package with ears and collect a complete facial cheese set; i’ll bet that would fetch a pretty penny!
it is ugly.
translation:
it is ugly. that one is actually correct. i just wanted to see if you were paying attention
so yes, this is what i spend my time thinking about when i don’t have enough laundry to do
and now i’m off to do some dishes before i create more havoc in the blogosphere.
have a lovely day.
and by that, i mean i day that is lovely (adjective)
Oct 04, 2012 @ 17:20:06
On the bus I had my eye on a seat but a lady sat on it.
I mentioned it to the driver and he said he could care less.
I thought that was a good sign .
It would have been discouraging had he said he could NOT care less.
Oct 04, 2012 @ 17:26:45
I am laughing so hard I have tears running down my face! Thank you for that. If you could now blog on and convince people to take the time to check their (not there) spelling my world would be a happier place. (Speaking of that…did you really mean you were getting ‘techy” with your underlining?)
Oct 04, 2012 @ 17:28:14
You’re on to something…now, can you explain irregardless to the masses?
Oct 04, 2012 @ 17:38:04
Thanks, Julie, nicely explained. !! Long time coming. Would you expand into the ‘self ‘ excesses, although I must admit Iself to never hearing that, but too much of so and so and ‘myself’.
See, you are a rule abiding sort of person, when the RULE is meaningful and it makes life clearer, cleaner, safer. Thanks.
Oct 04, 2012 @ 18:39:27
wowie mc zowie. believe it or not {and of course, you’ll believe it!} i had just read a post on FB …. a remarkably intelligent man, no less …. who made the statement: “… if you would like to have debbie and i come to your area…” … argh. i thought, “aw c’mon howie! apply the dang rule …. “if you would like to have debbie come to your area” {YES, CORRECT!} “if you would like to have i come to your area {WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!} ….. sheeeesh, then i came to your blog and now i cannot stop laughing!
when my daughters were young, they were forever doing another one, i think you’ll enjoy this! inevitably, they would say things along the lines of: “me and april are going to ….” or “can me and jenny do ….” hehe – my response was to remark that i didn’t think april was “mean” or that jenny surely wasn’t “mean.” of course, my girls would look at me puzzled —- and i would repeat back to them that they had said “mean april” or “mean jenny” [ slurring the me and together for emphasis!] hahaha …. i broke them of that bad habit and taught them to always put the other person first when saying “april and i” or “jenny and i” {and pointed out that there were times when it was correct to say “april and me” /”jenny and me” – when the objects of the preposition – ie: for april and me/withjenny and me}
oh yeah – the one that REALLY gets to me, too? is that fewer people seem to understand the difference between “YOUR” and “YOU’RE” ……. aaaaargh!!
oh my, this IS a fun blog! gotta luv it!
and btw – i am with you ………. i don’t capitalize either. part of that started with my carpal tunnel – pre and post surgeries. hitting the shift key was just too painful, so i began to type in all lower case and i’ve stuck with it ever since as it is faster and easier for these ol’ fingers!
i hope that you are having an absolutely loverly day, too!
Oct 04, 2012 @ 19:35:47
Uh-oh! It’s “most people, quite frankly, couldn’t care less.”
Oct 04, 2012 @ 20:05:00
Have you ever listened to the news people say “these ones”. They have been to colledge and have degrees and still can’t talk straight. That is just one thing that really gets to me or is it “i”.
Oct 04, 2012 @ 20:12:27
You know, I WISH people I knew would say “someone” and I, even if it’s wrong. I hear “Me and someone” all the time! It’s like fingers on a blackboard to me. When I brought it up to someone where I used to work – someone who was “supposedly” intelligent and educated – she told me that there was NO such “rule” about putting the other person first. *sigh*
Oct 04, 2012 @ 21:03:05
It is even worse when people refuse to acknowledge the rule! If you don’t care, that’s one thing…
Oct 04, 2012 @ 21:06:51
Thank you! I dislike hearing people abuse language. I do, however have my own personal problems with clause and adjective proximity. Sometimes it seems as if there’s good way to do it.
Oct 04, 2012 @ 21:49:34
Julie… ! (he said, hands on hips)
Oct 04, 2012 @ 23:33:08
Thanks. The misused subject as object drives me nuts. And I hear teachers using it! Once, an ENGLISH teacher!
Oct 05, 2012 @ 00:43:10
Well, you and earlier commenters have mentioned my pet peeves. I am also the hated English Police! Have you noticed a lot of LOOSE when the writers meant LOSE? They’re not even homophones, having a hard S and a soft one. My other bugaboo is number agreement. Somebody, nobody, anybody, etc is singular and not followed by THEY. It’s a curse to be the English Police! Thanks for this , Julie.
Oct 05, 2012 @ 05:30:07
Those who approve of courtesy will note:
‘Illegal’ is not a noun.
‘Democrat’ is not an adjective.
Oct 05, 2012 @ 05:31:37
The past tense of ‘lead’ is now spelled ‘lead.’ I hate that.
Oct 05, 2012 @ 05:34:43
I confess that I prioritize gender inclusivity over number agreement. So flush me.
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:16:25
yes on all of the above- and today i heard “drowned” used in the present tense. as in, “i was drowneding in debt.” ugh… but i thought of you!
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:16:42
yep!
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:16:54
i know!
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:17:25
ok, fair enough…
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:17:55
hahahaha- who knew this post would generate such passion?!?!?!?!
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:18:18
yuuuuuuuup…
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:19:40
you know- i thought long and hard about this one, because the comments were mixed- but i have to agree with you in the end. you are exactly right, and i sit here humbly corrected. thank you!
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:21:46
oh, i LOVE the ‘mean’ idea- i think i will poach it! (hope you don’t mind!) along the lines of the you’re/your- does the their/they’re/there also drive you bonkers?
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:24:39
ah- so such ‘self’ excesses per se- only that people are so “i” obsessed that there seemed to be no ‘me, myself, and i’… and that’s what came to my mind… although i suppose i could do an entire separate rant about how most of society these days is an excess of ‘self’- but my family is waiting for supper, and that’s not what you asked about
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:29:09
oh- this is a word my family uses liberally and that we may have made up (???). perhaps there exists a word “techie”? hmmmmmmmmmmmm- we use it to mean very tech-savvy, in a way that’s completely sarcastic, since i am the total opposite… so we will often refer to me being “techy” in some way or another- like when i know how to turn on the computer all by myself or i can microwave my own food or something… does that word really not exist?
Oct 05, 2012 @ 21:31:30
how funny, because i was going to argue with you, but then i decided to defer to you (no joke!), but then someone else brought it up, and i thought about it more. and i thought that the expression is the following: i care so little that it is not even possible for me to care any less. so i actually could not care less. so i think that’s actually the correct way… what say you???
Oct 05, 2012 @ 22:17:37
Ah, I’m sorry, my dear. My focus was more on the couldn’t than the commas. I guess those found their way in.
Love your posts!
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone, powered by CREDO Mobile.
Oct 06, 2012 @ 01:06:55
Gender inclusivity? Please give an example. My rule is, if it doesn’t make any sense, rewrite the sentence. There’s always another way to express the same idea. If HE, or He or She, or She won’t fit do it, I do it over. Wish I could remember the gem I saw yesterday. A picture of a baby, decorated like a female, and called THEY in the predicate clause!
Oct 06, 2012 @ 01:53:58
Yeah! More grammarians!!! I am not alone any more……
Oct 06, 2012 @ 13:03:22
its is justice all thems big wordies gets in the way of thems littler wordses an them the getses juxt-opposed till their is a war of the words goin on an me don’t likes it prety much mostly. spell check – grandmare-check – mic check! Occupy Language! that’s a ticket! buy buy.
Oct 06, 2012 @ 13:49:31
yessssssssss …. they’re, their, there ….. is enough to drive me batty. if people would only slow down and THINK before they engage their mouths! there really are a myriad of others that are just so annoying – when you see a really intelligent person making these mistakes it is actually pathetic.
how about to, too, two. now honestly?!? that one should NOT be all that difficult, eh? but ….. seriously ….. the list of assinine errors goes on’n'on.
Oct 06, 2012 @ 13:58:07
speaking of {english} teachers abusing the language…. here’s one for you:
when my oldest son was in 2nd grade, his teacher sent a note home to me. it was appalling! i circled {in red} the various errors in it ….. there were words not spelled correctly, grammatical blunders, a fragmented sentence as well as a very obviously incomplete sentence! {you can figure out the difference there!!!} in all …. there were 9 … read that NINE! …. corrections on the note! and she was the TEACHER! egadz. pathetic. i’d only recently stopped home-schooling my children …. and for several reasons was unable to do so again. {keep in mind, way back THEN, home-schooling was illegal! this would have been the very early ’80s …. we were pioneers in the home-schooling movement and helped to make it possible for people to home-school today!}
ah yes, the complexitites of the english language. gotta luv it!
Oct 06, 2012 @ 14:31:18
what’s up with using 100 “s’s” you snake! let’s just say 2 funny, twice.
Oct 06, 2012 @ 23:29:43
thank you!
Nov 27, 2012 @ 01:11:50
Nov 27, 2012 @ 15:09:11
hahahahaha- i read this first thing today and just laughed that you, like me, just cogitate and mull things around and around until you have just the thought you want and then you pounce on it. well, i’m glad that you can finally be at peace about this topic, and as always, it’s good to see your comments on the blog